Speed of time direction

Forums Sankhya Philosophy Speed of time direction

This topic contains 5 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by Danakeli April 14, 2019 at 5:15 pm.

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  • #6901
    Sitalatma
    Participant

    Typically, we say that time is slower at the root and gets faster as we move down. One breath of Maha Vishnu becomes a lifetime of Brahma, and then what demigods accomplish in one day manifests as six months worth of activities on our level. So “higher” vibrations have lower frequency and as we move down frequency increases, adding more and more smaller and smaller details.

    There is, on the other hand, another observation, occasionally mentioned, too. To manifest our audible frequency we need to take a carrier wave of a much higher frequency and modulate it. So what we get to hear is not the signal itself but its modulation. In this way we begin with higher frequency, and therefore faster time, and then we overlay changes on it to make it slower.

    This is an example of a man made solution but if we observe individuals of higher standing, who are supposed to be higher up the tree, they are operating at a higher frequency than general public as well. Pretty much in the same way Rishiraja *writes* books faster than people can read them. There’s just more work being done in the same time frame, and much of this work is not anything special but generic routine that has to be performed by nearly everyone.

    In other words we have two models of how time propagates through the universe. In one model it speeds up as we move down the tree, in other it speeds up when we move up and slows down when we move down. Any ideas how this can be explained?

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  • #6902
    Ashish
    Participant

    Good question, we have to get a little technical here.

    When Claude Shannon wrote his communication theory, which became the basis of all the modern communication technologies, he created a distinction between two ideas called signal and noise. Signal was the useful information and noise was the useless information. The useless information was always inserted into every signal due the medium or environment in which the message was sent. For example, if you are sending digital information (1s and 0s) some 1 may be flipped to 0 and vice versa, and that would effectively entail miscommunication. So, communication theory was essentially about how to alleviate the effects of noise.

    One simple way to overcome the problem was noise was to repeat the information. For example, if you send the same message three times, and noise distorts the message once, you still have two good copies of the message. But this also meant that I have to use three times the bandwidth to send the message three times. So, the information capacity of a noisy channel was less than the bit rate of the channel. If you could send 100 bits per second, by repeating the message three times, the effective information rate would be reduced to 33.33 bits per second.

    This insight then led to two directions of research. First, sending messages three times (or even more times if the channel noise increases) is not very efficient. You want to maximize the use of bandwidth by sending the least amount of redundant (repeated) information. This gave rise to coding theory in which the goal was find an encoding scheme by which we can send the least amount of redundant information (thereby maximizing the channel capacity). Today lots of such codes are known such as Convolutional and Block codes, which don’t send the raw message, but a coded message. A hardware chip is used to encode and decode the message. Each encoder and decoder is designed to overcome the effects of noise. In short, you can take the encoded message, randomly flip some bits, and then decode and you will still retrieve the original message.  The goal of information theory is to pack more and more information in fewer bits.

    Second, Shannon showed that this ability to pack more information in fewer bits has a limit. Every time you have a noisy channel, you must waste some bits for redundant information although there is a minimum on the amount of redundancy you have to add. Shannon did not say how to achieve that minimum but his theorem allowed people to compute the minimum. As technology progresses, people are trying to get closer and closer to this minimum amount of redundancy. This minimum is called Shannon’s Limit. With 4G wireless for example, we are very close that minimum, which means to send more data you need to get more bandwidth rather than packing more and more information into the same channel by improving coding.

    A side effect of these two problems is that your information rate is always lesser than bit rate, because some bandwidth is wasted in packing redundant information. Now comes the question of modulation. The ‘carrier’ wave being modulated represents the bit rate. The ‘information’ wave superimposed on that modulated wave represents information rate. Since information rate < bit rate, therefore, the carrier wave must be of a much higher frequency than the information wave. Remember that the root cause is noise, over which we have no control.

    Now, when we talk about information, there is no noise; it is only signal. Some signal we don’t have control over, so we call it ‘noise’. But it is not noise; it’s just something that nature does to destroy the information we are sending. So, we have to speak about two kinds of effects — (1) some information is being created by our mind as we encode it in transmission, and (2) some information is being destroyed in the process of communicating it to others. Coding is the process by which we maintain the intended information by creating redundancy. Therefore, when we speak about time, we have to speak in terms of creating, destroying, and maintaining.

    Then there are two more effects of hiding and revelation, or unmanifest and manifest, when we take quantum effects into account. So, the signal we are sending is manifest as a possibility, this possibility is then encoded into a symbol, the symbol is then transmitted, partly destroyed in the process, and then recovered and understood. Eventually it becomes unmanifest or impossible. This idea is described in some Vedic texts by saying that sakti has five functions — creating, maintaining, destroying, hiding and revealing. Hope this was useful in understanding.

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  • #6931
    Sitalatma
    Participant
    Participant

    This certainly helps to understand data transfer, and I was always wondering how a small .par file can fix errors anywhere in a much larger data file. Within limits, of course, but it’s still counterintuitive. It’s probably exponentially more wonderful in wireless data transfers like 4G.

    One way to reconcile experience of time speeding up when it should be slowing down is to say that super productive individuals, as well as modern data transmission methods, are demoniac in nature, meaning they operate on a much higher frequency and then slow it down to our perceptible level. That’s how demons try to control our world, as opposed to demigods who make small, slow changes on a deeper level and wait until effects propagate to the level of empirical perceptions.

    Demoniac here does not necessarily mean non-devotees and atheists, but levels of the universe which operate on a higher frequency and deal with much higher level of detail. The universe cannot operate without them, for various reasons.

    On the other hand, accomplished yogis can produce any amount of detail from very abstract ideas very fast, too, ie manifest a flower out of thin air.

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  • #7007
    Danakeli
    Participant

    Although the topic is above my paygrade, your mentioning of Dr. Shannon has prompted me to share w/ you something you might find intriguing.

    A friend of ours named Prabhu Kripa dasa (Peter St. George), a self-taught genius, has developed a technology which apparently goes way beyond Shannon’s limit of 3:1 to something like 1000:1.

    Here is the website for you to look for yourself. https://www.jumpedal.com There’s not much on the site at this point, but there’s a 5 min. video at the top of the home page & a few short articles accessible through the menu.

    I hope you like it.

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  • #7010
    Ashish
    Participant

    Thanks for the link. Yes, I too believe that it there is infinite potential to compress. The universe has sprung from the person of God. So it was originally ‘compressed’ in His body. In the modern conception, matter and energy can be interconverted, and scientists try to compress this energy into a singularity called a black hole, as well as the singularity at the time of big bang. But the presumption is that even in that compressed state all the energy and matter (that previously existed in a decompressed form) is still present. So, it is physical compression which creates problems because the laws of nature begin to breakdown at such compression levels.

    On the other hand, in the Vedic system, everything compresses back to the three modes of nature, and they remain separated and unmixed. The expansion is the combination of the three modes. So, just by combining, matter and energy are being created, and when they stop combining this matter and energy gets destroyed. This combination and uncombination occurs under the influence of time, and both creation (combining) and destruction (uncombining) are happening simultaneously and therefore order and disorder are being produced simultaneously.

    So, unlike the big bang, where matter and energy are never created and destroyed, in the Vedic system, they are being created (by combination) and destroyed (by uncombining).

    But it is also important to recognize that this matter and energy is ‘information’. It is not ‘stuff’ as we understand in modern science. We cannot compress ‘stuff’ beyond a certain point, but we can compress information limitlessly (until we reach the three modes of nature which can’t be compressed). So, to even understand compression, we have to treat matter as information.

    Once we have formulated this understanding, then we can compress information by separating out the three components, transmitting them, and then recombining them. Basically we would be repeating the process in nature by which by combining of the three modes the universe expands, and how by uncombining it just collapses back into a compressed state. So, the possibility of literally infinite compression exists, in contradiction to physics and modern information theory, and this may be something that the person you mention above has tapped into.

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    • #7011
      Danakeli
      Participant

      Yes, our friend would agree w/ you about everything ultimately being information, which he describes as originating from the brahmajyoti (which, of course, originates from Krishna).

      His explanation of how this information enters the material realm & how the creation subsequently takes place & how design throughout the universe is all encoded therein is rather complex (& over my head), but he says he has the math (which he developed) to prove that it’s not just trippy speculation. I know it involves platonic solids, the 6-sided star, Om & Radha-Krishna’s dance. Like I said, over my head! But I do have notes from a recording of his speaking about it w/ a few of us last year.

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